Recent Posts

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10
Very cool Barry and thanks for all the details!  ;)
I wrote some stuff on this one a while back, but felt that it deserved a proper summary in a single document.  It was an interesting build, and since the folks at Hot Rod are not likely to do an article on it - I thought I should document things before they are forgotten/lost.  Some of this will be repetitive, please forgive and understand...I have added pictures :) .  Sorry – but this is a really long post.  Daylight saving time and I am up extra early…

This year's EMC was broken into five classes.  The FE ran in "Spec Big Block".  This class mandated Edelbrock 60059 heads and an RPM or Victor intake with no welding or epoxy.  Comp Cams camshaft and hydraulic roller lifters.  MSD ignition.  Sheet metal catalog offered oil pan, bolt on rockers.  Headers need to be passenger car catalog items.  Carb mandated to be a 4150 flange four barrel with 1.750 bores maximum bolted directly to the intake - no spacers.  Crank driven water pump, 11.5:1 compression.  Cubic inches are set at 470 maximum with no factoring - add up average horsepower and average torque from 3500 to 6500 RPM to get a score.
This entry was mostly the work of William Blair - my shop's lead machinist.  I provided him with parts, guidance, and did the tuning.  He did all the machining and the majority of the assembly work and deserves the credit for his efforts.

We built a 468 inch engine using last year's block - a filled 4.250 bore Sideoiler Garage development part.  The crank is a 4.125 stroke Scat forging.  Pistons were Diamond, with .043 rings and lateral gas ports.  They were originally spec'd for a 4.250 stroke build and were altered to work with this one by milling some off the top, and running an .066 Cometic 4.250 bore head gasket along with a 6.8 Scat rod.  Combination put the piston .020 out of the deck.  It seemed to work pretty well and used a lot of pre-existing parts.  It’s an unusual approach but not really exotic.   It might have helped a little bit by reducing crevice volume above the top ring.

The rules mandate a minimum .043 top and second and a 3.0mm oil.  We started out with normal Total Seal classic stuff (I don’t do gapless) and then reduced the radial wall thickness.  Going by memory I think we have the second down to +/-.130ish – maybe smaller.

We ran T&D street bolt on rockers with the normal 1.75:1 ratio.  For the Edelbrock heads we decided to use our normal CNC program, which was designed around a 2.200 intake valve.  The rules mandated we run the valve sizes Edelbrock ships with their completed heads.  Our 2.09 valves were just barely able to carry a seat in that port bowl – they sorta “hang” in there – not ideal but it allows us to re-purpose the heads later on by installing proper 11/32 guides and the bigger valves.  The smaller valves really crushed the flow though – we had 304@.700, which is 20 cfm less than we see with the larger valves.  Airflow translates to horsepower and it showed in the event – BB Chevy entries got to run 11/32 stem 2.19 intake and they finished 1-2.

Intake is a Performer RPM with nothing beyond a good port match blended +/- 3” into the runners.  In retrospect I should have made a removable divider – but I just bolted the carb down and started tuning.  Carburetor is an 850 vacuum secondary Holley with the rear barrels tied up to open - - just worked better on dyno this way.  It is a 1990’s reissue of the original L88 carb with Ford kickdown linkage added.  I acquired when I worked at Holley way back then.  It still has the choke tower and blade intact.
In an effort to get valvetrain weight down I opted for the newest conical valve springs from Comp along with a minuscule titanium retainer.  We were running at .070ish from bind and 175 pounds seat pressure – right on the design limits for that package.

Cam is required to be a Comp hydraulic roller piece, but can be custom ground.  Our’s is 241/243 @ .050, .696/.670 lift on 106 LSA – installed at 101.  The rules mandated Comp hydraulic roller lifters were a real challenge.  Comp does not make a short travel hydraulic roller for the FE.  When we first tried to just run them we could not get a clean pull to the 6500 RPM target no matter where they were adjusted to.  I looked at the rules and saw nothing about modification to the lifters – so I had Willy make up some little sleeves to pack between the retaining clip and the inner plunger, reduced our travel to +/- .020 and were able to pull cleanly from that point on.

he valve rules were going to really hurt our combination so I decided go for the “cool factor”.  I chose to run a +/-1968 Ford C8AX oil pan (after getting “permission” since it has not been in a catalog for a few weeks now…).  Rod C from our forum lent set of 1-7/8 primary Hooker headers for a ’63-34 Galaxie which turned out to be my best set.  He also lent me a pair of cast iron long tube manifolds to try.  To finish off the old school vibe I ran a pair of chrome “Power by Ford” valve covers.  In a sea of modernized big block engines the old FE looked pretty darn cool – like it just got plucked from a 1970s street racer except for the alloy heads.

Early on in the contest some folks had some issues with the just upgraded dyno software at the school where the contest is held.  By the time I ran things seemed to have been sorted out – all of my pulls were straightforward with no drama.  My best score at home was 1109 and I was targeting 1160.  At the school we made four pulls with the headers and got a best average of 1150.1.  Peak horsepower was up +/-4% - 25HP from home.  Some of the difference is fuel – we tested on 93 octane Citgo, while the actual contest fuel is VP100.  The exhaust on the school dyno is also straight out the back and open while mine has an immediate 90 degree turn and goes up through a pair of large mufflers.  Our score put us in the middle of the pack - half the entries were all bunched up within 13 point spread.  The two BB Chevies were way out ahead.

After making the score pulls and seeing that were indeed well behind the leaders I decided to use our remaining time to swap to the unmodified ’63 Galaxie long tube cast manifolds and make a couple pulls in front of the media.  The swap was quick - thanks to Willy and Tim – and we were rewarded with the expected lower overall score but nearly the exact same peak horsepower 622 versus the previous 623.  Not too damn bad for old cast iron with 2.5” outlets. 

In closing – we made over 600 horsepower with Hot Rod photographing and recording video, on a third party dyno.  We used 11.5:1 compression, a dual plane intake, a 48 year old carb design with choke, a pair of 53 year old exhaust manifolds, and a 48 year old oil pan and valve covers (repro).  All the latest stuff for sure.

Lots of pictures, a couple of charts, and a video link follow.  I am first providing the data from my “home” pulls since its more conservative and I can defend the numbers.  Home background data was 28.58 baro, 40% humidity, 69 degree cell inlet air and a DTS calculated correction of 1.066.  I will try to add the contest data later on.

Video link
Quickest FE cars - ET and MPH list / 1967 fastback 7.13 @95.60 1/8 mile
« Last post by Stangman on October 12, 2016, 06:19:07 PM »
485 c/o 2x4 lowriser twin 600 vac sec survival heads out of the box,  c-6 10inch 3000 stall caltracs with caltrac shocks ET drag radials. 3250/3450 with me in it

link for final round win

Go get um Barry a little bit of a disadvantage but doing well will make it sweeter
FE engine dyno test info and engine build information / Engine Masters Challenge 2016
« Last post by Barry_R on September 30, 2016, 07:52:46 AM »
This year's EMC entry is very much the work of William Blair - my machinist at the shop.  I have spent a lot of time these past few months taking care of non-FE issues.  I gave Willie a recipe to follow, provided the parts required, and have done the dyno work.  He did all the machining and assembly.

We are running in "Big Block Spec" class.  This has a 470 cube maximum, and scores are from 3500-6500 RPM.  They add up the average horsepower and the average torque to get the score - no cubic inch factor in this class.  They mandate the use of a catalog Edelbrock head (no Pro Ports), a choice of two Edelbrock intakes, Comp hyd roller cam and lifters, MSD ignition with no digital stuff, and 11.5:1 compression.  Valves must be the same guide diameter and head diameter as delivered by Edelbrock.  Porting of heads and intake is allowed, but no welding or filler.  Carb must be a four barrel with a maximum of 1.75 bores, and mount directly to the intake - no spacers.  Headers and oil pan must be catalog parts for passenger car applications.

I am running a 468 - 4.250 bore and 4.125 stroke.  Rods are 6.8, pistons are .020 out of the hole with .066 Cometic gaskets.  This was not done as a "trick" - it was done because everything other than the block on the engine is either repurposed, or will be repurposed once we are finished.  Its something of a scavenger hunt build.

So far the best carb is an 850 vacuum - a reissued piece from the early 90s when I was working at Holley.  The pan is a C8AX Ford performance part from the late 60s.  The Hooker headers are borrowed from Rod C, and fit a 63-64 Galaxie.  Heads are 60059 castings, intake is a Performer RPM, Romac damper and one of Jay's timing covers.  Rockers are T&D street, springs are Comp conical with titanium retainers so small they look like ball point pen parts to me.

Cam is a special from Comp with 106 centers installed right now at 101 - yeah it's a bit advanced.

Its a pretty strong running entry so far - I live two hours away from the test site so I can still mess with it a bit.  But because of the valve limits it will not be a player in the class.  The FE has to run a 3/8 guide with 2.09 valves, the BBC gets 11/32 guides and 2.19 valves, the BBM gets 11/32 & 2.14 stuff.  Puts me at +/- 20-25 cfm down on airflow from where I normally run.  Scaling up Kaase's 2015 spec small block winner gets a 1160 score target.  I am currently 60 light, and might find another 10 or 20 at best.

Still a cool piece - and look at the torque curve.

Not the best pull - but a good representative

I have not done one of these write-ups in a very long time.  Just way too busy both in and out of the shop for a little while.  But the stack of completed engines that are interesting, different and worth covering is getting pretty "deep" so I figured I should at least try to cover a couple.  If you follow the Youtube videos I post for customers you will recognize that some of these have been "up" for a while.

First up is a big one both in displacement and in "cool factor".  Using an iron Sideoiler Garage block bored to 4.350, a Scat 4.25 stroke rotating assembly for 505 cubes and compression in the middle 10s for pump premium fuel.  Cam is a solid roller with 258/264 duration at .050 and .696/.696 lift.  Heads are Survival castings with the normal valve job and bowl & entry blend - not ported.

This engine is destined for a Gasser.  The cool factor comes from what's up top - a port matched Edelbrock cross ram and a pair of traditional Holley 750 double pumpers.  Ignition is a Vertex magneto - I had never run one of those on the dyno before...

The engine proved a real tuning challenge - but it eventually delivered the goods.  I ended up spending a few days sorting it out.  After intial running and checking I tried a couple short pulls and it was really coarse sounding and hard to "drive".  My O2 sensors indicated that it was extremely rich and not firing well at all.  Thinking that the problem was with the vintage ignition I swapped in a known good MSD system - and was rewarded with no real improvement.  Pointed me to the carbs...

I pulled back the jetting some and tried again - and got an improvement.  Pulled even more jet and it got better yet - to the point where it was starting to behave normally and I felt confident enough to stick the magneto back in.  The mag was within single digits of the new MSD stuff and we were finally off to the proverbial races from a tuning for power perspective.  Timing ended up in a pretty normal range 36-38 degrees total.  Tried some vintage velocity stacks and it "liked it".  Tried some open 1" spacers under the carbs and it like that a lot. 

Jetting ended up way leaner than the delivered combination - to the point where I would normally have been changing bleeds in a race carb, something much more difficult with these traditional Holleys.  Air/fuel ratios remained pretty fat below the torque peak but smoothed out and became pretty much normal once it got "on the pipe".  You can hear the change in sound as it comes around during the pulls.  I think it reacted this way because the Edelbrock cross ram does not connect the two banks - its really a pair of four cylinders that share a crankshaft and probably has some weird stuff happening in that funky plenum.  The plenum is really shallow hence the big gains from spacers.

An extra note is the valve cover breathers.  Don't do that.  Mounting them to the outside of the cover looks cool, and its the only way they fit with this intake.  But they fill up with oil and become a "P trap" (you plumbers know about that) and essentially plug up until you get enough crankcase pressure to blow them out & spray oil everywhere.  Second time I've seen that - we were ready for it this time and knew what to expect.  Make them "fake" vent elsewhere if you really need the look.

Peak power ended up at 642 horsepower at 6200 (we made some pulls to 6500).  Peak torque was 625 at 4600 RPM with 530 pounds at 3000.  We had several pulls in the 630+ horsepower range.  A really strong running package from an unusual collection of parts.  It should surprise a few folks...

Relative humidity was 29%.  Baro at 28.83, cell inlet air temperature was 83 degrees, and correction factor was 1.073 per the DTS software.

Chart data a picture and link to video below:

Link to video:
FE Engine Tech Topics / Re: Coil
« Last post by Stangman on May 05, 2016, 11:53:41 PM »
Thanks Barry hope ya had a good time at beaver next year I would like to get up there.How did your car run, good I hope
FE Engine Tech Topics / Re: Coil
« Last post by Barry_R on May 05, 2016, 06:03:42 AM »
Never tried the combination but I'd wager its perfectly fine.
FE Engine Tech Topics / Coil
« Last post by Stangman on May 03, 2016, 11:19:05 PM »
Hey guys bought a 8594 MSD distributor  and in the middle of buying MSD 6AL question is I have a pert ronin flamethrower HC coil is it compatible with the MSD box, I looked at the specs and they seem to be the same or better than the MSD coil but IM no expert
FE engine dyno test info and engine build information / Re: Power differance
« Last post by Barry_R on March 19, 2016, 08:58:34 PM »
Not yet really.  I have done a bunch of similar engines with one head or the other - but not done a head swap on the same engine.  From what I can tell it seems like an honest 30 HP gain.  I really need to make a straight swap on the dyno - but the customer usually kinda needs his engine and I don't have the time to stop...
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10